Council against seniors housing

Your headline is inaccurate, Cezary and I think you only make yourself look bad by posting it. Your development proposal doesn't meet present zoning requirements. The City has to walk a line between allowing/promoting appropriate development and not compromising the existing neighbourhood. They have to walk a line between making exceptions for this development but not for other developments. 

Cezary, you are making yourself look like an asshole by continually criticizing the mayor, the council and city staff on this forum and Facebook when things don't go your way.

The best way to achieve what you want, is talk to the city planners and staff plus the council and come up with a plan that's acceptable to all parties. You know, like grown-ups do, not spoilt children.

What you're doing here, is making a nice salad, shitting in it and then acting surprised when nobody wants to eat it.

So last time this was discussed here, the project had no mention of age restriction, just that there will be seniors association. Given that this post says 'NO opportunity for young families to purchases houses from seniors', the linked article seems inaccurate saying that 55+ restriction will be in place. Without age restriction it is not OK to call it senior housing.

As for affordable, givent that it is private endavour, it has very little chance of offering seniors selling older houses in Rossland an option of buing a unit in the development AND having some stash of cash remaining after the transaction.

Density =/= affordability automatically. At least not yet in Rossland where land is relatively cheap comapred to the cost of building. The most dense cities in the world are among the least affordable.

Dont give up Cezary. This City needs develpment of this type. There are bylaws that I sometimes disagree with, but can council has to deal with them as well as you. Maybe both the bylaw and your plan  can be reviewed.

So an apartment building has been shot down multiple times.

Why not do some normal houses with plans that actually work in Rossland OR build a school where the school was and is needed.

Just my 0.02

It would be nice if you identify yourself when making comments so that everybody can recognise you. Heading behind nickname is rude. I recommend the article. There is an explanation.  The headline is accurate. Building on old cook school is for seniors who built Rossland and paid taxes all their lives. Helping seniors by adjust bylaw is nothing wrong. Seniors asked for referendum before starting construction on the new city hall/affordable housing. Seniors know that this land is contaminated and would be problem to build 38 units plus city hall. City council did not listen and today we have most expensive excavating in history of Rossland. Senior’s taxes will go for this irresponsible decision. In Rossland we have over 400 seniors. What options does a 75 year old couple living in single home? They are cutting grass, removing snow, repairing roof etc . They need the option to sell their house and move to new apartment with underground parking, elevation and gathering place.

I have done enough fighting and am giving up. If seniors want housing, go to city council and push for it. Rossland seniors deserve a decent life for all they done for our beautiful city. They deserve options more than young people who were given 38-unit affordable housing. Young people can go to school , learn new skills , find good job and afford to buy house. Seniors do not have this chance.

Great Headline. Spot on Cezary.

Excellent article Cezary!  Most Seniors options require moving out of Rossland.

Cezary, are you suggesting that society owes a housing debt to seniors? Seniors who have lived their prime earning years through the greatest growth economy ever seen; all the while leaving an infrastructure deficit, land claims deficit, and ecological/climate deficit that up and coming generations are left to pay for? Young family homebuyers are facing the grim reality of runaway home prices as the money printing continues to protect said seniors' pensions and real property assets. Much appreciation to the "Greatest generation"' who faught the world wars, but comparitively the Silent generation and the Boomers have had a free ride. They have also had a lifetime to aquire wealth and plan for their accomodations in their golden years. A twenty-something walking out of school burdenned by student debt and the uncertainty of a market experiencing exponential technological change and asset inflation doesn't need the added weight of subsidizing the generation that came before them. The fact that subsidies are required at all is evidence of a failing system. I don't think council has the ability to sway global macro economics. We're all just along for the ride. And in a capitalist free market society it's your responibility the figure out how to make it work.  

Quitting may be the best option. Put the land up for sale for a developer willing and able to navigate the system and provide market housing. 

Another perspective to consider...

Dave Diplock 

Great points Dave. Well said. 

Actually Dave, you come across as someone who is on the Ayn Rand train of "every man (or woman) for themselves" rather than everyone doing the best to look after everyone else to try and make it so everyone has a chance or ability to live a decent life, regardless of age. You sound like you'd evict your own mother or grandmother and take their property and possessions as having been gained through improper methods and they should be rightfully yours because life's been "so unfair". People, society, governments, they've all made mistakes, but having lived for a decade in the mecca of capitalism - the US - I wouldn't say a "capitalist free market" is the bright shining star you seem to say it is. You see, I found out why there's so much "going postal" down south (tho's it'snot called that anymore, it's just "mass shootings")....in a capitalist society if you lose your job, your marriage ends, your kids don't turn out right...you're seen as a loser or worse, and most people run and leave you to your own devices...as you say, "it's your responsibility to figure out how to make it work"...but what happens is people get angry that everyone's laughing and pointing a finger and worse, so they pick up a weapon and take revenge on those they see as the cause of their demise. Is it not much better to help a brother/sister/wife/partner/mother/grandfather etc. etc. get by, even if all one can give is moral support? Down the States even that is always in short supply, where you easily become "less than" if trouble of any kind lands on your doorstep. People go bankrupt with one illness, or lose their homes and their possessions and can easily end up living in their cars. My friend's daughter-in-law is American and when her father lost his job in the 08 downturn, her family of five  (the 3 kids were all under 12) lived in their car when they couldn't find a bed at the local homeless shelter, and had to keep driving around to find odd jobs / food banks / a bed for the next night....over the course of a year it took a toll on her parent's marriage and on everyone's health and mental well-being. Visiting with her now Canadian in-laws she can't find enough good to say about a society that (so far) looks after their citizens, by and large. Spending money to make sure the citizenry is looked after is NOT a bad thing....if you have such strong convictions that it is, then I would say, live them: give up your medical benefits; give back any gov't money or other money you have every rec'd (E.I., scholarships etc. ...after all, you're supposed to work it out yourself, remember??). Spent a night on someone else's couch or the local hostel? oops, you didn't figure it out yourself, you "leaned" on someone else's good will...unless you're a hermit living on your own property in the middle of nowhere, we all have to depend on and survive with other people's support, in some way, otherwise it becomes survival of the fittest, which it seems, is what you espouse. 

Sorry it didn't work out Cezary. I'm sure your intentions were good. Too bad Council has tunnel vision fixated on something it seems the majority never wanted. 

Miko, I'm no libertarian and not a fan of free market capitalism but it is the current game being played. I suggest having a strategy because very few have your wellbeing in mind. You don't need to be a winner but being a loser sucks. Anyone who has had to "rely" on government knows the frustration.

I think a smart society invests in its future starting with youth: nutrition, socialization, education, training and even housing so as not to have citizen burden the system later in life but rather become contributors. These aren't subsidies, these are investments. Sadly education continues to be eroded to fund health care due to demographics.

Subsidize/invest in housing? I'd start with single mothers. But alas children don't vote and politicians' short term prioities don't realize the downstream benefits of the social investment. Instead we live in a society bent on maintaining a standard of living for a generation that blindly lived unsustainable lives. This continues because that generation currently has the political power that comes with a dominant demographic, aquired wealth, and time on planet. So the debt burden to future generations continues to grow.  

Another unforeseen trend that has come back to bite us is the promise of the white collar middle class dream. Boomers sent their children to college to get ahead (me being one of them) and now the workforce has been tilted toward credentialism and bureaucratic waste rather than merit and productivity.  This is further exacerbated by a global economic system that has outsourced our production largely leaving a local service economy with relatively little value added production. This contributes to the high costs of construction and I imagine, Cezary's frustration. 

And yes, luck is a big factor in one's life, a life that is often a catastrophe. But whining doesn't help. Accepting personal responsibility does. Cezary gave the best advice above for seniors to get together and make something happen for seniors housing if this is what they want. This should mean pooling resources, both financial and a lifetime of skills aquired; not political influence. If still not financially feasible, they should look to their senior peers hoarding wealth rather than those citizens arriving later to the game and just starting out. 

Anyone concerned with the potential for free market capitalism to steamroll this town should provide input on the OCP and hold city council accountable to upholding the OCP and not making arbitrary accommodations. 

Happy Sunday ramblings  

Dipper: I take exception to your blanket comment "Instead we live in a society bent on maintaining a standard of living for a generation that blindly lived unsustainable lives". while this is true for "some" of those you hold in disdain, it is not true of all, and I don't believe it's true of the majority, it's like everything else in life, the worst is always there to see, and usually in your face. My parents and all those that came with them from Europe after the war did not live "unsustainable lives". My mother (and our whole family) did recycling, upcycling, and re-using before recycle was even a thing. I know most kids that came up in that day and age do the same thing. We had to bring our wax paper home from school or get a tongue lashing as my parents' budget was tight. Oh yeah, we used to bring lunches to school, that use to be a thing too...so I get the complaint about living unsustainable lives, but please, don't throw it out there like it it applies to the majority of previous boomers or even older folks...most of them had little money when they came here, worked for peanuts, and made do with what they could. My mom would wash & rewash plastic bread bags to re-use; we got hand me down clothes growing up, and I know a slew of immigrants that lived the same way...actually Trail used to be known for "hidden money" in that people (i.e. immigrants) for the most part lived almost like paupers and you couldn't tell that they even had two nickels to rub together....and most of them didn't, but they were good at saving, which they all did because they had all come from poverty in the old country and they wanted to make sure they had enough "just in case"....and oh yeah, most of them PAID for their kids' university (my dad did), granted that it was way cheaper once upon a time....and because they came from nothing, they were pride of what they accomplished and gained in their new country, and for the most part, the kids learned that lesson and followed in those footsteps, and yes, some were lucky enough to be beneficieries of a few dollars (sometimes more) that their parents had squirreled away, not from stock market gains or real estate investments or even buying lottery tickets (which weren't around then!)...but the money came from hard work, no expensive vacations (our family never went on vacations, period), no fancy cars (my dad only had two in 30 years), and there was no buying new furniture, bedding, kitchenware, etc. etc. etc. just because the mood struck them or they got tired of what they had.....how boring....they were living sustainable lives, imagine that...so PLEASE, spare me the grand "tua culpa" ("it's YOUR fault") of branding the total sum of the older generation(s) as being sole perpetrators of  global waste, greed, rampant economic destruction and the miseries that ail you. Of course some play the system, and some take advantage...always have and happens in every system, be it business, government, politics, even in charities...and oh yeah, the stock market...It's a lot of BS that floats around these days that it's only the "younger" or "current" generation that has any brains or can figure things out or has what it takes. If you take an honest look around you might see that there's actually an equal balance of ineptitude, lack of moral conscience, apathy, and egotistical displays of what you condemn, in all age groups. It's not particular to those that came before you.

Miko, no disdain or emotion, just an observation of the tradgedy of the commons. Anecdotal individual stories are always compelling and much loved by media given our bias to compelling narratives, but loses the forest for the trees. As to the younger generation picking up the slack? Let's hope so but not the best start with the example set by and the insatiable influence of the digital age. 

Great discussion and perspectives by you both. Thanks for sharing respectfully. 

It is a shame the developer and City could not come to a resolution. Rossland needs this kind of development. I am over 60 and expect in a few years I will look for a different place to live which is sad and challenging. I have lived in Rossland for 30+ years and would like to stay but the community has no options to move on to. I cannot afford a $650k townhouse and monthly strata fees. There are massive wait lists for the few senior housing options Rossland has to offer and they span across the quality and comfort scale. 

By not supporting housing options for seniors, City Hall stagnates the turnover of residential properties and compromises the age diversity of the community, among other negatives. The developer has established himself in the community and invested a lot in this vision. This is a real loss to the community. 

Jackie Drysdale wrote a great letter in the paper. Everyone interested should read it. And remember ... we all get older. 

Excellent points dallaslama :)

There's all kinds of condos for sale in Rossland. Why not sell your house that's long paid for, it's probably got lead pipes and no sprinklers,faulty wiring and asbestos anyways and head up To Red Village? There's  tons of Up to code Condos most with elevators and great weekly maintenance is done for you.Thers a nice 2 bedroom in my Complex no lead no asbestos  no funky wiring. Great price and excellent quality.We also have bus service up here and hopefully in the coming years with the rapidly growing population we in Rossland will have Community Translink buses that run constantly within our Beautiful little Town we all call Home. 

Seniors,young,middle aged we all have a Excellent Standard of life and quality of life compared to majority of BC and then there's the World and Fact that 80% live in absolute poverty and 50% don't even have elec or running water. Yet here we are in times and in a town where being a Karen is so the thing to do?

We're so lucky here I. Rossland and so are the seniors who have tight knit family's and friendships for the most part . Majority here and anywhere would step  up for our senior parents And relatives. Who Didn't wake up today and not think Thank GodI live in such a easy commute low crime low stress town like Rossland. I know I did and as I watching the sun rise in my morning Run I literally felt a wave of joy and gratitude come over my body. Living in Rossland is one of the best places in BC to live and that goes for all of us I'd guess jusding by the smiles I see on so many seniors faces they'd agree. 

We're so lucky here I. Rossland and so are the seniors who have tight knit family's and friendships for the most part . Majority here and anywhere would step  up for our senior parents And relatives. Who Didn't wake up today and not think Thank GodI live in such a easy commute low crime low stress town like Rossland. I know I did and as I watching the sun rise in my morning Run I literally felt a wave of joy and gratitude come over my body. Living in Rossland is one of the best places in BC to live and that goes for all of us I'd guess jusding by the smiles I see on so many seniors faces they'd agree. 

http://www.bhubble.com/discussions/node/149642