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Sourdough Row

Affordable housing is what we need, not units starting at 400k plus. yeeks. Just my opinion.

Great, more unaffordable housing in Rossland.

Even better, crammed in our beautiful downtown core like were some city-wannabe type town.

 

Looks like great views for all.  Ha ha

 

Looks like great views for all.  Ha ha

 

WTF is going on with the thinking in this town?? Then my place which is only 625 sq ft, 1bdr, older building should be 250k... not likely... :(

 

An outdoor space - suite balcony or roof top deck would make it alot nicer

I thought this was to be affordable housing (at least several long-term residents seem to think so, due to the lack of affordable housing in Rossland). Has there been a misunderstanding, or did the powers that be change their minds?

And what about those houses on 1st Ave that look like they going to be in the shadows of the building? It doesn't seem fair to them and I would assume those houses are going to lose some of their value.

The city needs more affordable housing – anyone wanting expensive housing would look at Redstone or the Ritchie Road area lots I would have thought.

 

The reality is affordable housing these days is 400K and truthfully that is reasonable for new housing in 2018 living in a Canadian resort town or pretty much anywhere else. 

If I lived next door i would be pissed too.  But what can you do.  It’s a commercial property. People who own it want to make money.  If you owned that property you would want to make the most possible.  I’m guessing affofable housing isn’t as profitable or more people would be doing it.  

If I lived next door i would be pissed too.  But what can you do.  It’s a commercial property. People who own it want to make money.  If you owned that property you would want to make the most possible.  I’m guessing affofable housing isn’t as profitable or more people would be doing it.  

My 4 bedroom 3 bath house must be worth 950k

You’re comparing your old inefficient piece of shit house to brand new technology.  

His house may be as inefficient as Red mountains chairs but it lacks what the mayor of this town and her best buddy call, “old school mountain charm”. Apparently it works at Red so why wouldn’t it on his piece of shit?

i don’t live in p.o.s. “Stevefrench” 

When i moved to Rossland, it had a fairly diverse range of people. If this town is not careful it will become another resrt town were the locals can not afford to live, $400k is not a good place for startter housing to be!

With the rental market getting smaller every day because the landlords are selling means that less long term residents can stay here to live. If $400k does become the norm then think about the taxes, they would be around $4k per year and the average renter can't afford to buy and pay that amount in taxes.

I really thought that the mayor of Rossland would have looked at affordable housing before granting planning for the Sour Dough area.

Heres a question - What is the average salary for some one living in Rossland and what does the average Rosslander do for work? 

 

I walk dogs for a living and make 150k annually.

Just adding some comic relief, re. Wooly's comment above:

 

$400k for a brand new place, in a good location, in a good town/resort is to much?   Sounds like a good deal to me.   Can I afford it?  No.  But that's only because, like most Rosslanders, I don't want to work as much as 'city' people do.   Doesn't mean i have the right to complain about no affordable housing.  I have been priced out of this town because of lifestyle choices, not cost increases.     Trail is not far away.    It will likely be my home sooner than later. 

 

That's an interesting attitude, given your pseudonym. I would be interested to know if there are a lot of Rosslanders that feel that way.

I love it here, but I have absolutely ZERO delusion that somehow it's my right to live here 'affordably'.  If I all really care about the skiing, I could move to Salmo/Ymir and just do backcountry, cheap.   It's not my right to have 1990 priced access to ski RESORTS.   The word RESORT is right there in the title.  Not a word commonly associated with affordability.   I can't just roll into Vancouver and say 'Hey, I don't want to work super hard, and am not really bringing much to the table,  but I still want to live in the best city in North America (arguably) for whatever I can afford.    There is all this  b.s. about everyone wanting to be equals and special.   Most of us aren't special, and we definitely aren't all equals!   To think that we all should still have access to the same things on equal terms, is a bit of a fantasy world.   Lots of people are smarter than myself, work harder, studied more, took bigger risks, aimed higher and are being rewarded more.   That's how it is, and how it should be. 

Like most people here, i'm not actually from here.    I came 17 years ago with a strong work ethic and was hungry.  I've owned and sold a few properties and always made a bit of money.    Working all the damn time.  I could perpetuate that cycle if i want to, but I don't.   I'm no longer hungry, and the work ethic has, well, been influenced by the Kootenay lifestyle. 

 Work non-stop and live in Rossland. 

vs 

Work waaaaay less and live 10 minutes away.  

For me, not a hard choice, but that's just me.        

 

Well said

Building cities for investment, not for living. Another real estate venture financed by debt and tax loopholes.

Eventually every scheme based on debt, a promise to pay at a later date, will run out of new investors. Debt grows exponentially, burdening the economy with carrying charges. The more the debt burden grows, the less income is left for spending on goods and services.

Young families will eventually no longer be able to afford to own or to rent a home and raise a family here. Investment, speculation, and storage of wealth is why resorts are created. This is what Rossland will become unless there are bylaws that close, or at least tighten, the loopholes for the ‘investment’ owners. ie. Intense increase of ‘foreign’ ownership property taxes. But it’s unlikely we’ll see that, because real estate is why the ski hill was purchased.

Real estate is a traded commodity where the fictional value increases for a few, while simultaneously distributing the liabilities on many others.

Equality aside, who are these townhouses aimed at? Maybe I'm completely off on Rossland's demographic but I find a lot of younger people are either moving here to ski/work at the hill (seasonally and not) or moving here to start/raise their family. If they are here to work seasonally, these townhouses aren't exactly affordable, if they are here to raise a family 2 bedrooms is not nearly enough, (at least, cramming their family into two bedrooms wasn't what they moved out here for).

Rosslands aging population (if they can afford it) would probably love the walkability of these townhouses, but 3 floors? Having to climb stairs just to get to your living room and having to climb two sets of stairs just to get to bed? Probably a no go.

So the ideal people for these houses I'm guessing are young to middle aged with no intention of starting a family in the near future, with a well paying job and one car. The person (or people) would ideally have an 85.2k downpayment and have no problem paying around $2100/month for mortgage+taxes+maintenance fees and then an unnamed amount of utilities on top of that. Based on my experience I don't personally feel that this matches the average Rosslander.

Imho the planning of these townhouses could be better and demographics could be better researched.

 

Agree with LoveRosslandHome! We love Rossland and have been homeowners here and would have said a year ago that we'd NEVER live in Trail...But now we're making the move to Trail! Precisely because we're tired of working all the time to afford to live here (buy back into the market) when we can get a way nicer (and cheaper) house/property, work less, and still enjoy all Rossland has to offer whenever we want to. Don't get me wrong, we live here for the skiing and biking. But yup, I can still do that being 10 min. away. Haven't made the move yet...so we will see if our tune changes once we live along the river...but I'm not sure I'll be missing too much. 

What Vanessa said was exactly what I have been thinking and why I posted this. I am a neighbour of this project so am obviously biased however I have accepted that this is happening. I completely understand that this is commercial property and that any owner/developer is going to want to make a profit. I understand that we live in a resort town and that property and taxes are higher here because of it. However, the comments I have heard from people walking by and seeing the sign have ALL BEEN NEGATIVE. So I was curious just to hear what others in town think.

This project seemed very secretive right up until the signs were posted. Us residents were trying to find out more information but that was a struggle and it was mostly rumour mill. Since the listings were posted, I have been trying to imagine what demographic of people would buy these units. They are situated in an alley with no view except for the side of a building or a back yard. When K&M does the same thing on their parcel it will be even worse for a view. There is no outdoor space at all (not even a balcony), I can't imagine anyone with children in there. 3 stories, so not aimed at seniors. Put this development in the downtown core of a big urban centre and it would be very popular. But in Rossland most young people are here for the outdoor lifestyle and not a city lifestyle. At this price point, it's hard to imagine any single person buying it. So it's left to a couple. But there is only one parking spot. Which brings me to my major issue with it.

As the majority of Rosslanders work out of town, this is likely a 2 vehicle household. Where are those extra vehicles going to park? The residents of Spokane and 1st Ave already have major issues with parking as most of us don't have off street parking. When you add in the snowbanks in winter that problem is compounded. Then you add in the fact that there are residents of Earl who also cannot park on their street in the winter so park down below and walk up the stairs. What happens when these new residents have visitors coming to town? What happens when K&M develop? What happens when the empty lot beside the daycare is developed? There needs to be some serious long term planning for housing developments and the parking issues that go along with it.

If the city says go ahead, build 7 units that are on the high side, pricewise, then the city should also plan for 7 units that cater to seniors, fixed income, low income. I understand building is all about making money, (I mean I understand but don't always agree), but sometimes we need to think about whats right for everyone, not just a select few. 

People still seem to be under the impression that these are priced 'on the high side'.   They might be priced high FOR YOU, show me 1 single place in North America where you can live year round, this close to a WORLD CLASS ski hill, for cheaper.   Show me, and I am on my way there to scope it out.   I bet if the price listed was $385,000 it wouldn't be considered so high, it just sounds a lot better.     

What did people think was going to happen when the town and Red started really advertising and dumping boatloads of money into their image and upgrading.   Red sure didn't put in more chair lifts and renovate the lodge just for the locals.   That would be bad business.   

Do these 7 units look aweful?  I think so.    

Are they too tall?  I think so. 

Are the people on 1st going to be fuming?  I would be, and would be considering selling right now. 

Vanessa, kmacg, the new generation of 'ski bum' that comes to this town for the winter doesn't come looking for work.   They have saved up enough to not work at all over the winter.   That's the new way of doing it.   The poeple buying those properties will likely be quite 'well-off'.

K&M built that monstrosity on 3rd and St. Paul,   both sides are sold.   3 floor, lots of stairs.   Granted, those units are bigger and nicer, but knowing what it costs to build these days, I don't see how they made any money at all.   The demographic is physically fit 45 - 60 year old financially successfull people who want no yard to maintain or even shovel the snow that they came here for.  Their kids have left the house, or are leaving very shortly.  They enjoy wine,  subaru's, and spending money on the local economy.   They also likely  have enough down payment to cover almost the entire purchase price from selling their property elsewhere.   I know sometimes it's hard to believe, but there are a lot more people out there with stacks of money than you might think.    So many so, that I wouldn't even be surprised if some of those units get purchased, and are left empty for the summer.   

I know the market is discouraging for most of us,  but there are still a few 'affordable' houses in town right now.   There was a really nice trailer in the trailer park with a garage/hot tub/2 bath for under 100k!   Some of them are total dives, but we can't have it all and only be working 21 hours a week.   One could sell their soul to Teck, work all the time, save the down payment in a few years and be one of those people buying a $400k dwelling.   You own the house, but teck get's your soul. 

D.W. if you want to do what's right for EVERYONE, what would that be?   

 

 

 

 

LoveRosslandHome, I don't disagree with anything you have said. As I said, these units are aimed at the well off couple - not young ski bums, not seniors with mobility issues, not families. And those people will most likely have more than one vehicle. My biggest logistical concern is the parking issue for this and future developments like this.

I wonder if the city will consider implementing residential parking permits for certain areas.

The parking thing will certainly be an issue and is a valid concern.   I hope they have a plan in place for that.

The parking will be a problem, especially as the hotel guests use the area for parking. Glad I don't live in that area.

I am still shaking my head that Rossland would allow this.
What a shame.
*sigh*

They have a really nice design, matching in with the downtown style.

I wish everyone would quit calling Rossland a "resort town".......... it is a bedroom community for what happens in the valley.

More than once I've heard visitors/out of towners refer to Rossland people as "clicky". And the longer we walk around with our heads held higher than others thinking we live in a "resort" town, the longer we're gonna watch more stupid developments that cater to a certain class... which means I'll be doing some thinking on whether I'm staying here or not. 

Hey Truman and DW. I read some frustration or denial in your responses. Call the town what you want. Vacation spot, destination zone, adventure town. It’s all about the marketing. I’d recommend watching Adam Curtis’ documentary The Century of the Self. It explains the birth of PR.

You might want share your opinion with Tourism Rossland, Rossland’s Destination Management Organization. Also include the Province’s Resort Municipality Funding program.

I’ll agree we’re not a resort with skiers and puppies inside their jackets. That’s the way ski resorts were originally marketed. Although, I did see it up close once.

The business profit, or other person's debt, is in the real estate. The unaffordability doesn’t happen overnight. It only took a generation to digress away from using savings to using a credit system for purchases.