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Yep - that's a motorbike!

Today, at 5.30p we saw a motorbike on the trails as we were walking our dog. We could see him going at quite a speed along Larry's before hitting Curly's on his way down toMoe's and Centennial. In the 19 years I have been here I have seen a number of motorized vehicles in the trails, but never in such a well-transited public trail, and so in-your-face. At least 2 other groups saw this guy as well...

Photos: 

We have run into guys on motorbikes, not motorized bicycles, a number of times this summer on the Deer Park trails.  The last group of 2 on motorbikes were polite and stopped and apologized.  Previous bikers have been less than respectful. And fast!

Yep, we saw him too. 

The deer park trails other than Drakes are not part of the KCTS trail network and are not Restricted to no. Motorized use.
The deer park trails other than Drakes are not part of the KCTS trail network and are not Restricted to no. Motorized use.

I have run into more people on e-bikes than dirt bikes on our trails. I always ask them to please dismount and push there e-bike home. I will say this, i have had more lip from e-bike people than dirt bikers.

Dylan, Rob I agree with you both. However, yesterday coming down miners I could hear down below a motorbike being riden with short, sudden bursts of gas at around 5.30p. You can see the result all the way from the Centennial gate in town to somewhere between the water plant and the reservoir. This to me sounded like a spiteful act...

There was a dirt bike rally at Red Mountain over the weekend. Perhaps those (this weekend) were out of towners who didn't know where they should not be.. 

 

It would be great to see an organized Dirt Bike/OHV group in town getting involved with trails. Squamish and Revi have had to developed that way. With more trials bikes and dirtbike riders here, it seems about time. Food for thoughthttp://squamishdirtbikeassociation.ca

 

That's a super low powered four stroke, that would travel slower than our top mountain bike riders.  Way slower down.  Probably a teen that wanted to get somewhere.  

This person would have had nothing to do with the Adventure touring group in town.  Completely different type of bike.  Here are some definitions of dirtbikes for you.  They are kind of like all the different types of skiing.

Motocross- motocross bikes on a man made track, no lights, no licence on bike (ski racers, stick to gates)

Xc Riding-Xc bikes on trails, usually no lights on bike, no licence (like skiing in the trees, and cross country/nordic skiing on groomed trails)

Enduro riding- enduro bikes with soft suspension, lights, dot tires, and a licence to ride on the road (ski touring type)

Adventure Touring- licenced bikes that are too heavy and hard to handle for single track, they stick to dirt roads or trails like the rail grade, maybe some single track sections, but would have zero joy from riding this. (person that ski's groomers at a resort)

Most people/riders you may see on the hiking/biking trails are trying to get out of your way and to a trail that is out of town.  Only the old trail they used to ride has now been made into a walking/hiking trail.  

Thanks for the awesome information Jess and that sounds like a really cool idea Snogirl! I hope Rossland gets on board :)

The first day was a XC motorbike. Not sure what motorized trail he was trying to get to as he was coming down either from Miners or Larry's.

Yesterday, whomever it was, he/she was gunning it city-bound on centennial.

Personally, I don't care these were motorbikers or mountainbikers. I care that everytime the rules are broken we jeopardize the use of the trails, as most do not belong to us. I also care when somebody, on whichever mobile medium, rips the trails senselessly.

I think it would be a great idea to include motorized use on certain access corridor. Many of these routes were used by both motorbikes and horse riders long before the KCTS was around.  Duhkabor draw, parts of technogrind, Larry‘s loop, the railgarde and wagon road to name a few.  It’s unfortunate that main access corridors to ciircumvent pavement is now off limits to motorized use.  But I do agree theres no excuse for irresponsible damage to the trails.

All participants in the kootenay adventure rally had plated/insured bikes. None of the waypoints were on or near any mt bike trails. There were checkpoints inside the boundaries of red resort. Thank you red resort & the event organizers.  The majoity of checkpoints were all over, from Slocan city to Salmo/Nelway, Nelson & Nancy Greene Lake, and everywhere in between. No mt bikers out there. Lets face it, there are many pedallers out there, but mt. biking is a motor sport. Many people in this town don't ride thier bikes unless it's shuttled to the top. Every pickup & suv have racks & pads. All the service roads around town that lead to mt bike trails are hammered by 2wd shuttlers. Go 500m past the farthest trail, and the road is in fine condition. People need to respect all trail users, no matter what mode of transport. Nobody is better or worse, even the self centered  disrespectful few in all user groups, including berry pickers, hunters, firewooders & especially commercial dog walkers. Keep yourself and your animals in control , & clean up after them. You know who you are. Respect. 

And a HUGE shout out to my fellow team members of the Dynapro dyna sores... we kicked ass. R.M.F.

Colin - mountain biking is not a motor sport. There are many in this town that primarily pedal their bikes. Pads/racks are used to get to trailheads like Larch - MC and 7 Summits. On the other hand, e-bikes are a motorized sport.

e-bikes are considered motorized? at what output (500W, 1000W) does an e-bike become a motorized?

how does an e-bike differ from a regular bike in terms of how they alter the trails? 

have there been people doing burn-outs on their e-bikes?

I am fairly certain that when you put a motor on a bike, that bike now becomes motorized. Here is a link to the KCTS page that outlines the reasons in which these bikes are not allowed on our trail system; http://www.kcts.ca/e-Bikes

Yes, they are considered motorized as they have an electric motor that either propels the bike autonomously or assists with pedaling it. But, in the end it does not matter what you think or I think, Sean. What matters is what use the owners of the mostly private land the trails cross will allow on it. I believe the agreements with the KCTS are very specific - read liability, loss of privilege, etc.

This, and the damage to the trails was the sole point of my post.

Thanks for the info Bojanggles.

So if I'm reading that correctly the issue is liability and access to existing land use agreements, not that e-bikes are any harder on the trails than regular bikes.

 

So much misdirected prejudice towards e-bikes! The only difference between my e-bike and my regular bike is that I can pedal up hills that I would have to get off and push my regular bike up. I enjoy both, but my e-bike is not as fast, doesn't make a sound, and leaves no more tireprint or emissions than my regular bike. It just allows an old, out of shape guy like me to actually ride around Rossland without having a heart attack. Yet, I'm not allowed on the trails? E-bikes are growing exponentially, and are here to stay. Attempts to marginalize them remind me of the days when snowboarders were treated like pariahs by skiers. I don't get the hate?

Just my opinion.

 

PS - I was also in the Kootenay Adventure Rally this weekend. I find it extremely hard to believe that one of the participants would have been on the bicycle trails on a motorbike.

Not pointing fingers, but I saw a couple sets of dirt bike tracks on Sun afternoon as well. They went from the reservoir to the tunnel along Centennial. It honestly doesn't bother me much because I figured it was out of towners that weren't sure where to go and most of my encounters with motorbikes has been respectful. I don't ride with a motor, but I think it would be an awesome idea for a society to get a solid network of trails up and running and stop the conflict on the trail. 

It would be cool to have trails Designated multi/motion/horse etc so you know what to expect. mountain biking in squam I have encountered motos on trails. It’s definitely terrifying and usually ends in the moto stalling/tipping over!! We all want to enjoy this beautiful place we live, designated trails seems like a great solution. Maybe a motor trail association?

Been in Rossland a fair while and the whole family are avid mtn bikers. Also have over 50 years exerience riding motorcycles. In my experience the first to lose access is always the motorized user. Even on trails they built and were the first and most common users. The trail politics in this town are very one sided and the mc crowd is not considered and never will be.

I agree with Colin. I expect I have less carbon inprint spending 4 hrs on my enduro than the mountain bike rider who shuttles using his suv or full sized truck to Larch MC. They are both motorized sports.

As far as the KAR they used trails in the Rossland Range that were quietly built and maintained by local riders. There was never any confict and in fact rare to see anyone. Who ever showed the organizers these trails or the organizer that decided to use these trails in the rally I expect has put the use of these trails at risk. There now is gps tracks for these trails all over the internet. They are exceptional riding. Waiting for the closed or no motorized use signs.

Lets start a Rossland Enduro club. Rossland Village Guerillas

It is key to remember that while we all enjoy the network of trails in and around Rossland...regardless of whether that is via our own two feet, two wheels etc., much of the land we enjoy it on is actually privately owned and we are kindly granted access.  I think there are some whom look at it as "theirs" simply because they've been using it for whatever means.  Too much entitlement by the few inevitably ends up ruining it for everyone else.  I'm sure you've experienced that phenomenon in your own lives previously.  Lets be mindful of that potential in this case.  Access to these trails directly from town is a big part, in my opinion, of what makes Rossland special and exponentially improves the liveability of town.

Scottfor: last time I rode larch m/c I pedaled my dh bike from home. In fact last time I rode 7 summits I pedaled my dh bike from home. Admittidly I got a ride up the hill from paterson. Motorsport. I see people regularly parking on the highway to shuttlle cemetary. Motorsport. Shuttles to top of paydirt. Motorsport. See the same local vehicle's full of bikes headed up the malde many times on the same day. Motorsport. E bikes will ruin trails? No they will eliminate the need to drive a V8, V6, 4cylinder to or from the trailhead. Motorsport. Drive to Nelson or Cgar or Whistler to ride. Motorsport. Hockey is a motorsport. Skiing groomers dh or xc, motorsport. Cat or heli, motorsport. Each grooming machine on any mountain burns +/- 200 litres of diesel fuel every shift. Buy more groceries than you can carry, motorsport.  Ebikes are a liability & will ruin the trails.?  I smell something...

You might be confusing motorsport with our society's reliance on the combustion engine. Nice hook.

Kind of an interesting development in the cycling world. Sort of relevant to this thread.

https://www.velonews.com/2018/09/news/uci-to-organize-e-mtb-world-championships-in-2019_479427

Interesting how buying more groceries then one person can carry has now been deemed a motorsport. 

Vert interesting exchange of thoughts on how a person's actions can easily be viewed from different vantage points. The most asked question I get about cycling up and down the hill is, How much money did you save on gas? I tell them, I'm not sure. I cycle for medicinal purposes. Maybe the same vantage point could be used to view recreation.

To put it plainly, seeing is not believing—believing is seeing. We see things not as they are, but as we are. Our perception is shaped by our previous experiences.

Could that $5 head of lettuce organically grown a 1000kms away really be the healthier choice?

Chances are the problems with dirt bikes around town are being caused by one of two people. Most dirt bikers just want to get out and do the thing they love (like biking or skiing etc). A motorized user association would be great. It would be nice to have more moto single track! 

Regarding ebikes, they are here to stay. Splitting hairs about them isn't helpful. Its probably time to define what kind of electric assist bikes we should allow on our trails. There are people that want to ride and can with the use of ebikes that otherwise might not be able to ride that shouldn't be barred from sharing the network we enjoy. Painting all ebikes and motorbikes with the same brush is ignorant. Good policy is our step forward. It doesn't bother me sharing the trails with ebikes, mountain bikers who shuttle and those that pedal. Getting out and blowing off steam is important! 

Giving as many user groups a place to go will result is less problems for all of us. Cheers