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How do we influence friends and others?

Hey folks I have a question to pose to Rosslanders and I'd love to hear your thoughts. We still have some people in our community who are not taking social distancing seriously. They pose a risk to themselves and to the whole community. There is so much information out there that ignorance of best practices is not a valid excuse. Facilities are closed, playgrounds are closed, everyone should be at least 2m apart when in public, wash hands frequently etc etc. Here is my question: How can we engage with these folks in a way that will help them understand that what they are doing is wrong so that they will change their behaviour? We can't force anyone, but we need to convince them. Ideas? What would you say? I'm looking for serious, compelling ideas, not profanity or abusive remarks. Remember, try to be kind, but persuasive! Thanks.

And while you are at it, check out the Thoughtexchange process we are currently running: https://mythoughtexchange.com/892279350

Once we have the results in, I'll share the report with the community. We are all in this together!

Take care and stay safe.

km

What would I say?

Encourage people to learn a lot more about what Coronavirus/Covid-19 is, and do it in a way that is fast and convenient. The animated video below (now seen over 10 million times) was launched on Mar 19th, it is the most efficient and thorough explanation I've seen to date. It is only 8 minutes long. The YouTube channel responsible for this video has a large body of work, covers a wide range of topics, and is science-driven throughout their various subjects. They run an extremely popular channel.

The video is titled - 'The Coronavirus Explained & What You Should Do' 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY

Use it as a starting point to better understand what you do and don't know about the pandemic.  

Great to dig into this Kathy. You're awesome. 

Here is a clickable link for the thoughtexchange: https://my.thoughtexchange.com/892279350

Here's the question in there: 

What are some of the most important things we need to consider as Rosslanders as we all navigate the weeks and months ahead dealing with the impact COVID-19?

256 people and 302 thoughts rated 6000 times so far.... keep em coming. 

Top thought so far: Obeying the 14 day isolation rule after returning from travelling. It just takes one person to start another outbreak.


Do you agree?

Add your thoughts.

D

 

Encourage people to check out covid19info.live

Anyone with even a minimal competency in math can understand these numbers. Take a look. 

Currently Canada has a relatively low (1.4%) death rate but we are behind many areas of the world for time/exposure.

Everything that we do right now matters.

Please make sure your returning students/family members are strictly self isolating. 73% of our cases in BC were due to travellers.

 

 

This is a wonderful visual simulation that has helped my family, including my 10 and 13 year old children, understand the importance of social distancing and it's impact on flattening the curve. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

Sharing resources, being socially responsible, meeting each person/family where they are at and supporting them in a postive way to become informed will greatly help. 

 

Most people have learned over time the benefits to reducing the likelihood of infections. Washing your hands probably is easiest and most effective solution for reducing the spread of any infections.

The issue I have is the Problem, Reaction, Solution, approach. The broad brush stroke approach and one size fits all reactionary methods are being applied. All without evidence defining the problem. This is clear lunacy. But, we're being told what we can or can't do by the 'authority'.

Even after checking the 'approved and reputable' sites for information, I can not find how dangerous this virus is to humans relative to the seasonal flu. I see statistics on number of tests completed, 17,912 in BC as of March 20, 2020. The number of confirmed cases, 424 confirmed cases in BC as of 3PM March 21, 2020. The number of deaths, 10 in BC. I probably could make a comparison but the statistics provided create an apples to oranges comparison.

As a caveat to the statistics provided by the BCCDC and Health Canada. No information has been provided on the 3rd party test for the tests. No information on the likelihood of infection. Nor is there any information on the age of those confirmed cases. Even more troubling is there are no details on the cause of death.

To quote Jon Rappoport from www.nomorefakenews.com/

Here’s the basic situation: the Italian health agencies are reporting escalating COV deaths—big fear-story out front…

But in the background, other Italian government researchers are combing through patient records, to take a much closer look…to see whether people are dying from the virus or other more obvious causes.

Are people dying coincidentally WITH the virus, or BECAUSE OF the virus? Is the virus a mere harmless passenger in the body, or is it the driving force?

The Italian results are astonishing, to understate it by a mile.

Bloomberg News has the story: 3/18, “99 percent of those whose died from virus had other illness, Italy says”:

“More than 99% [!] of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions, according to a study by the country’s national health authority.”

“The average age of those who’ve died from the virus in Italy is 79.5 [!!!]. As of March 17, 17 people under 50 had died from the disease. All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions.”

[end quote]

Here is a quote from BCCDC, “Most people with COVID-19 recover; however, people with chronic diseases are also at higher risk of death if they become ill. “

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-professionals/clinical-resources/covid-19-care/clinical-care/vulnerable-populations

Influenza (or flu) is a common respiratory illness affecting millions of Canadians each year. In Canada, flu season usually runs from November to April.

Watch the 'confirmed case' rate curve flatten as the flu season ends. Then those responsible for inflating the hype with pat themselves on the back claim what good job the community has done. Meanwhile the damage done and profits made will be completed using cybernetics and the feedback loop. Problem Reaction Solution.

Why would anyone not treat this day as any other seasonal flu day? If you're feeling sick or have a compromised immune system, don't put yourself in a position that increases the likelihood of infection. Pretty simple.

 

Fool me once, call you a fool...

 

 

Howser,

Not sure what your point is. If you are saying... due to coronavirus/covid-19 older citizens are dying at greater rates than younger people. And also saying citizens are at greater risks if they have comorbidities. Yes, those points have been established for some time. 

Perhaps there is reason for concern because this isn't business as usual, this isn't a well-understood common respiratory illness affecting millions each year. This is a novel coronavirus. It has never existed until recently. And that's why people are concerned because it is uncharted territory. 

You asked the question "Why would anyone not treat this day as any other seasonal flu day?" My immediate thought is 'Because the common flu and coronavirus are two very different things. To help reduce the negative impact on our local health system, and our senior citizens, applying social distancing is a small price to pay to help out the amazing people who are going to be on the front lines when this thing hits our greater community'. But my words don't mean much I suppose. I can't properly convey what our front-line healthcare is going to be facing (or is currently facing). I suppose one way to better understand what coronavirus looks like is to read this from today:

https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients

Happy to try and understand your opinion after you read what things look like on the front lines here in N. America.

My name is Dave Ford. I am a 54yr old resident of Rossland, co-parent to two vibrant pre-teen kids, and I AM SCARED. Like most of you I place a very high value on personal freedom and the many ways we enjoy our freedom living here in our close-knit social and outdoor heaven. We all know nobody wants to be told how to behave, stay away from friends, not go on group rides, etc. Also, like 99.9% of you, I have seen countless posts on various social media and online news sites reporting what is happening around the world. Initially I bet we've all, myself included, had the thought of "But it's so far away, this is Rossland (or any other BC town) so we're safe, right?" 

Here are two posts which hit home to me as being very pertinent in an educational context, especially with our small town life:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/ 

https://thespinoff.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Covid-19-Transmission-graphic-01.gif?fbclid=IwAR2thmiwTxdoebqDIANzV-aDydM-CDBsTb0uHyZjjZ5ugLxig14rI1vMsyM

My longtime partner is a respiratory therapist, in layman's terms, a "nurse" who manages a hospital patient's breathing. She has a 30yr career, equally in acute and community care and has been through the SARS and H1N1 pandemics, as have a few other local RT's. There are 12 RT's who work in Trail and area (if including management and non-acute staff), 2 in Nelson. The Trail hospital usually has 7 ICU beds, in the past week some more have been created as a preparatory measure. This past week staff did a full-on COVID-19 simulation, as realistic as possible given the medical info coming in from areas already hit.

 

The concern among the RT's and the health professionals they work with is enormous. This virus is currently impossible to contain. The ONLY HOPE is to slow it down.

Here are just a few things we're changing at home:

- Outdoor shoes are left outside, one pair of indoor footwear kept inside. Do not touch the soles of your outdoor shoes. When out for a walk please do not spit or blow snot rockets.  

- In multi-person households limit grocery shopping to one person only. Flip a coin, draw straws, throw punches, shortest vs tallest, decide however you want...... pick one and stick with it.

- Playdates for kids are a huge no. The same goes for adults, if you know what I mean. :(  Be aware of the "It's OK, we're all feeling fine" confidence, this virus doesn't reveal itself for up to 2 weeks.

- Get outside but use "the new common sense" of keeping your distance from anyone not living in your house. For kids, playground apparatus of any kind is a no go. For adults, the backyard gatherings have to stop! On the upside, it's now acceptable to yell "GTF off my lawn" at your neighbours with a beer in your hand. 

When the hospital does become busy (and you'll definitely hear/read about it) please keep your exercise such that you won't be adding to their workload.  

- Netflix/Youtube Pro Tip 2020 ----- Find something to laugh about. Old Toronto Maple Leafs "highlights" are just one of many excellent options.

 

 

 

Thanks Kathy, great points everyone. It'll be interesting to see the benefits on the environment and and the impact this has on us as a social species when we get through this.

A great quote I heard the other day,

OUR ELDERS WERE CALLED TO WAR TO SAVE LIVES, WE ARE BEING CALLED TO SIT ON THE COUCH TO SAVE THEIRS. WE CAN DO THIS!

If we all co-operate at the same time it may take less time and less of our freedom away. 

I wish there were a system to positive of negative votes for comments as I am curious to see the community consensus on some things. There are some comments on here that I pray, or I would if I knew which deity was in the control room, are outliers but am genuinely curious. Overall I appreciated some of the great views expressed on this topic and I especially appreciated your thoughts Dave. 

I began to draft a response to the posts.

But, I guess this isn’t the right time nor place start a conversation about epistemology.

By the way, epistemology could be very useful now, probably for the first time in decades or even centuries.

 

https://theconversation.com/how-do-you-know-that-what-you-know-is-true-thats-epistemology-63884 

Nothing wrong with using critical thinking to form your own opinion. Personally, I'm not smart enough to be an awesome scientist or amazing mathematician. And that's why I use vetted sources that demonstrate excellent scientific rigor, and are supported by thousands of world-class industry experts. I do a lot of cross-referencing against other mainstream leading publications, scientific journals and papers, to hone in on the higher probability stuff.

But I'm just a nerd, who enjoys analysis and trying to connect dots. I know enough to know I don't know much... and that's why I follow the lead of people waaaaayyyyy smarter than me. 

Forming your own opinion is important. But who is shaping your opinion? My formed opinions are not about a virus.

A highly recommened short video 20min. is worth watching.

https://www.corbettreport.com/how-to-practice-proper-social-distancing-propagandawatch/

Know your rights.

What class of person are you? Do you understand me?

We have a new expression in our house. Anytime anyone comes up with some totally batshit conspiracy flat earth anti vaccination tinfoil hat lunatic fringe nonsense.

We say 'That's totally Howser'

Feel free to use that at your leisure.

Howser, while your integrity for critical thought and challenging the accepted norms is usually a welcomed voice in what can somewhat be an echo chamber of society - there are appriate circumstances & situations to be questioning societies behaviours and accpetance of authoritarian suggestion.

 

The reality is that despite not having very much information to provide substantial concrete evidence about this virus, it doesn't take an epistemologist to tell you:

 

"BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY."

 

Also, the annual Influenza has an infection rate of around 1.3 percent (so for every 1.3 people you infect, they infect 1.3 people and so fourth, which ultimately means you infect around 13 people on average).  Covid19 has an infection rate of 3 percent.

 

That's roughly 37,000 people. So no, it's not the flu.

Happy to continue with the conversation...

You asked "But who is shaping your opinion?". I think I answered that already, are you looking for exact references, specific science journals, medical papers, leading scientists, math modellers? Not sure there is enough time to write out all the places I use as reference sources.

You stated your "formed opinions are not about a virus". Cool. But this thread is about the virus.

Thanks for being concerned, pretty sure I know my rights.

You asked "What class of person are you?" If you ask my wife she might say I'm not always classy. But I try. On a more serious note, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in regards to 'class of person'. 

 

Howser,

I just watched your 'highly recommended' 20min video link from The Corbett Report.

That was painful.

Painfully bad. Tinfoil hat wearing irresponsible reporting, based on mediocre pseudoscience. But hey maybe it was just that one video that was atrociously bad, so I thought I would give The Corbett Report website the benefit of the doubt, and dove deeper into his entire website in an effort to better understand how you are forming your opinions. 

Uugh.

Corbett promotes the following pile of nonsense: ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy theories, chemtrails, Deep State operatives, New World Order, Black-Ops, Climate Change is fake news, and a boatload of other moronic YouTube content theories. 

If you are forming your opinion based on this kind of drivel, I'm pretty sure you and I aren't going to agree on much. But hey, that's cool, you are entitled to your own opinion.

I'm so tired of the seasonal flu comparison but I'll bite one more time.  The seasonal flu kills between 290,000 and 650,000 every year.  So average daily rates are between 794 and 1780.  The last daily update from Reuters had a daily death tally of 2300 people.  And that number is still rising exponentially.  That's why you should be concerned about this more than the flu.  For the argument that this will go away once flu season finishes:  what about all the cases near the equator or in the southern hemisphere?  Iran was one of the first countries hit badly and the numbers in southern hemisphere are also rising exponentially albeit a few days or couple of weeks behind the north.  And you never know, maybe this will abate during the summer in the north, but we dont know enough about this, maybe it goes away, maybe like the Spanish Flu the 2nd wave will be much worse come the fall.  

Thanks everyone, this is great to see how people are thinking about this very important issue. Since I first posted this message, our world has changed in many significant ways. I am so proud of Rosslanders for *mostly* taking this seriously and doing the right things. Since I last posted here the city has closed all of our facilities, our parks, gone to split shifts so we are never down key employees (our water treatment plant will always run for you!). We've put a lot of signs up around town and most people are obeying them. We frequently update the community at www.rossland.ca and there are good resources available there too. 

The Thoughtexchange process that is currently underway really underscores this point: we are a close, caring community, trying to do the right thing. If you haven't contributed your thoughts or starred the thoughts of others, please do so. I'll be reporting out next week on the results. 

Here is a clickable link for the thoughtexchange: https://my.thoughtexchange.com/892279350

Here's the question: 

What are some of the most important things we need to consider as Rosslanders as we all navigate the weeks and months ahead dealing with the impact COVID-19?
 
We are in this together and together we will get through it. Keep your distance and stay safe!